I know what you’re thinking, there is no way auditors can be arrogant. We are the victims. No one likes us and they treat us badly. Well sometimes they don’t like us because we can be arrogant. Some are outright arrogant. Whereas others are accidently arrogant.
And that is what we’ll talk about in episode 15 of Audit Bites titled Don’t be an Arrogant Auditor.
Audit Bites is hosted by Robert Berry and is the first live show to discuss auditing. And we give you CPE for watching a live show or listening to a podcast. Pretty cool right?
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Transcript
Welcome to audit bites the show where we give you bite-sized chunks of information and education to help you Excel in your audit career.
Robert Berry:Join our host, Robert Berry as we tackle another tough auditing topic this week.
Robert Berry:Hey, Hey friends.
Robert Berry:Welcome to audit bites.
Robert Berry:The first, the very first live show where we talk about well auditing and you can get CPEs just for watching or listening to me.
Robert Berry:So check us out at auditbites.com or on your favorite podcasting platforms.
Robert Berry:Now this, today, is episode 15 and you've seen the title.
Robert Berry:Don't be an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:And I'm your host award winning.
Robert Berry:Robert Berry, but again, you've seen the title for today.
Robert Berry:Don't be an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:So what do I mean by that?
Robert Berry:The arrogant auditor, look, you've seen them, you know, the ones you go into audit engagements and they know everything about the client and they tell you how terrible the client is.
Robert Berry:You see, they've been auditing this client for many, many years and they know where all the skeletons are.
Robert Berry:Let me know if you've ever encountered an auditor like that.
Robert Berry:They know everything that's happening in the department and everything is terrible.
Robert Berry:Furthermore, if the client would only listen to them, everything would be okay.
Robert Berry:You see, this is the attitude that your arrogant auditor would take.
Robert Berry:They know everything about the client and the client would be better off if they simply listened to them.
Robert Berry:So before we go any further, let's just define what arrogant is.
Robert Berry:Let's define what arrogant is.
Robert Berry:Let's just take a dictionary definition.
Robert Berry:Let's talk about arrogance for a minute.
Robert Berry:The definition from Oxford languages in the dictionary is having or revealing an exaggerated sense of one's own importance or ability.
Robert Berry:Again, you've seen them.
Robert Berry:They talk at the clients, not to the clients.
Robert Berry:Again, they talk at the client, not to the clients.
Robert Berry:And my man Thomas is here and Thomas says, thankfully, I know I'm not an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:I really.
Robert Berry:I really do already know everything about,
Robert Berry:oh, that was funny.
Robert Berry:Um,
Robert Berry:I wasn't expecting that this early in the morning, Thomas man.
Robert Berry:All right.
Robert Berry:So now that we've had our comic relief from my man Thomas.
Robert Berry:Let's go back to the arrogant auditor again.
Robert Berry:Now mind you, there's a difference between giving your audit staff a heads up on your client's culture versus downright arrogance.
Robert Berry:So let's define the difference between the two, a heads up might sound something like this.
Robert Berry:"Look, guys, this client has had problems in the past.
Robert Berry:Go check out the work papers and the report and you'll see what they've had problems with."
Robert Berry:You see someone who's just giving you a heads up will tell you factually why they're saying the things that they're saying, whereas that arrogant auditor, well, here's what they might do.
Robert Berry:They might start using ad hominem arguments with your clients.
Robert Berry:And you guys have heard me talk about ad hominem arguments and you know, just how much I love at ad hominem arguments, but that's what an arrogant auditor will do.
Robert Berry:They'll start to say things like, oh, this client is terrible.
Robert Berry:Oh, this client is crazy, but they won't add any substance behind anything that they say.
Robert Berry:Now.
Robert Berry:Here's what I will say.
Robert Berry:You have to watch for anyone who uses ad hominem arguments, especially in auditor though, because what happens is they don't support what they're saying with any type of facts and good morning Eylea.
Robert Berry:Good to see you here.
Robert Berry:So.
Robert Berry:You don't want to be an arrogant auditor, if you are.
Robert Berry:Here's what happens.
Robert Berry:Arrogant auditors, miss out on significant opportunities in their career.
Robert Berry:There are three negative consequences to being a negative auditor.
Robert Berry:And guess what?
Robert Berry:I'm about to talk about them.
Robert Berry:So let's just get right into what are the three negative consequences of being an arrogant auditor?
Robert Berry:Well, first arrogant auditors, miss opportunities to learn something new.
Robert Berry:Every audit is a learning experience.
Robert Berry:Let me say that again.
Robert Berry:Every audit is a learning experience.
Robert Berry:Your whole job is to go in, ask a lot of really good questions, assess an environment and give a conclusion.
Robert Berry:That means you have to learn something about the environment that you are evaluating.
Robert Berry:Could you imagine going into the doctor, and as soon as you walk into his or her office, they automatically tell you what's wrong with you without asking you any questions or doing an evaluation.
Robert Berry:That's the equivalent of an arrogant auditor who does ask any questions.
Robert Berry:If you're an arrogant auditor, you will miss out on opportunities to learn something new because every audit is a learning experience.
Robert Berry:The second thing, the second bad consequence of being an arrogant auditor, well, after not learning something new, you miss opportunities to connect with your clients.
Robert Berry:Let me say that again.
Robert Berry:If you're an arrogant auditor, you miss opportunities to connect with your cilents.
Robert Berry:So think about this.
Robert Berry:Connecting with clients allows you to collaborate and to contribute to building a better organization.
Robert Berry:And that connection often starts with listening and learning.
Robert Berry:Arrogant people don't listen well..
Robert Berry:Arrogant people don't learn and grow.
Robert Berry:Arrogant people don't move from point A to point B arrogant people don't learn how to do new and different things.
Robert Berry:Arrogant people are also usually passive aggressive communicators.
Robert Berry:And you guys know, you know, how I feel about passive aggressive communicators.
Robert Berry:So let me just go back to my audience for a minute because we have a few people.
Robert Berry:Marvin says, hello.
Robert Berry:Hey Marvin, how's it going?
Robert Berry:I hope all is well with you.
Robert Berry:And Leslie Hamburg is here as Lee what's going on.
Robert Berry:Leslie says, wonder what type of relationship arrogant auditors have with their clients?
Robert Berry:Well, Leslie stay tuned because we're about to cover some of that because as I just said, you're saying.
Robert Berry:Thing that you miss out on.
Robert Berry:If you're an arrogant an auditor is you miss out on opportunities to connect with your clients.
Robert Berry:So that relationship has got to be pretty bad if you're not connecting with your clients.
Robert Berry:But the third thing that you miss out on, if you're an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:But let's go back to number one and two first, first arrogant auditors, miss opportunities to learn something new.
Robert Berry:Every audit is a learning experience.
Robert Berry:So you will miss out on that opportunity.
Robert Berry:But the second thing is well, arrogant, auditors, miss opportunities to truly connect with clients.
Robert Berry:But the third thing is if you're an arrogant auditor, you miss out on opportunities to serve your clients.
Robert Berry:See if you're an arrogant audit and your clients won't trust you, and then you won't be able to perform your job.
Robert Berry:So how do you identify an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:That's the question for today.
Robert Berry:How do you identify an arrogant auditor?
Robert Berry:I'm going to give you three ways that you can identify an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:But before we do that, if you would like this breakdown on arrogant auditors and the other types of auditors that I've identified these personalities are well-defined in my book, ask better questions, get better answers, perform better audits.
Robert Berry:You see in this book, I break down different personalities for auditors, as well as different personalities for audit clients and how to deal with each of those different personalities.
Robert Berry:So see this book.
Robert Berry:This book hit the top 50 in the U S and it hit number one in France.
Robert Berry:Why France?
Robert Berry:I don't know.
Robert Berry:Don't ask me.
Robert Berry:Is it written in French?
Robert Berry:No, it's in English.
Robert Berry:I also have a great one or two day seminar surrounding the principles that are in this book.
Robert Berry:If I remember to I'll go back and drop a link to the book.
Robert Berry:In the chat, but if you want to get a jumpstart after this live show is over, go to ask, get performed.com again, that is asked, get perform.com and Leslie, thank you very much for your kind words.
Robert Berry:Leslie says it is a great book.
Robert Berry:See, I didn't have to see it.
Robert Berry:Somebody else said it for me.
Robert Berry:Thank you, Leslie, because I mean, you may not have trusted me if I had just said.
Robert Berry:So now back to our regularly scheduled program, listen, some of you guys may not think that you appear arrogant.
Robert Berry:Let me say that again.
Robert Berry:Some of you may not think that you appear arrogant and some of you may not be arrogant, but there's this thing called being accidentally.
Robert Berry:Now, some of you are scratching your head right now.
Robert Berry:No, it's either on purpose or not.
Robert Berry:You can be accidentally arrogant.
Robert Berry:And so let's talk about that for just one moment and what that means and what that looks like, because I know it may sound strange and you may think that there is no such thing as accidentally arrogant, but let me give you an example and I'm going to give you a personal example of what that looks like.
Robert Berry:So at one point, In my life, I changed careers.
Robert Berry:So I moved from financial services to higher education.
Robert Berry:Now I entered the higher education industry as an audit director.
Robert Berry:Let me say that again.
Robert Berry:I entered the higher education industry as an audit director.
Robert Berry:And I knew nothing about the higher education industry, but I did know about auditing.
Robert Berry:So I did what any good auditors should do.
Robert Berry:I studied the higher education industry.
Robert Berry:I went to training.
Robert Berry:I actually got certified in some kind of higher education industry, something, something or another.
Robert Berry:So I had a lot of catch-up to do, and I was working hard to do that catch.
Robert Berry:But then one of my first engagements in the higher education industry was surrounding our banking relationships and our credit cards that we had, um, at the university.
Robert Berry:Oh boy, I felt happy.
Robert Berry:I was like, woo we're talking banking.
Robert Berry:We're speaking my language.
Robert Berry:And so my clients invited me to meetings while they were talking about, we were moving to another credit card processing platform.
Robert Berry:Okay.
Robert Berry:They invited me to meetings and because I understood the financial services industry, I had a lot to offer or so I felt now in these meetings, I was talking a lot because I knew what I was talking about.
Robert Berry:Okay.
Robert Berry:You see what had happened was the kind of credit card processing that they were doing was something that was fairly new.
Robert Berry:So there were certain things that I did know and certain things that I didn't know.
Robert Berry:And while I did add some value at some points in time, I should've just shut up.
Robert Berry:My goal was not to be mean or malicious.
Robert Berry:My goal was to help.
Robert Berry:But while I thought I was helping at some points, I did appear just a tad bit arrogant and it hit me one day when I was sitting in a meeting and we were having these discussions and someone said something.
Robert Berry:And I thought about it.
Robert Berry:I was like, wait a minute, I'm talking entirely too much because I haven't heard enough from my clients.
Robert Berry:And this was many, many years ago, but this is what started me to thinking, you know, sometimes we can accidentally do things that make us look unfavorable.
Robert Berry:So now again, you have people who can sometimes be just outright arrogant, but sometimes, sometimes you can.
Robert Berry:Accidentally arrogant, which is going to make you miss out on opportunities with your audit clients.
Robert Berry:You're going to miss out on an opportunity to connect with them.
Robert Berry:You're going to miss out on the opportunity to learn something new.
Robert Berry:You're going to miss out on opportunities to help improve your organization.
Robert Berry:I mean, you think about this.
Robert Berry:My clients invited me there as a casual observer, as a trusted advisor.
Robert Berry:I wasn't there to control their process.
Robert Berry:I was there to ensure that proper controls were in place and because I was talking a little bit too much.
Robert Berry:I may have done some things to tarnish that relationship.
Robert Berry:Fortunately, I was able to salvage it before it got too bad.
Robert Berry:So the question that I asked is how can you identify an arrogant auditor?
Robert Berry:That's the question?
Robert Berry:How can you identify an arrogant auditor now, before we go there, let's go back to the comments, Thomas.
Robert Berry:Thank you.
Robert Berry:My friend dropped the link to my book.
Robert Berry:In the chat.
Robert Berry:So if you guys want to go, I think I may actually have, um, the first two chapters up so that you can read.
Robert Berry:I can't remember.
Robert Berry:I think I do, but I'm not real sure.
Robert Berry:Now my man Clearance is here and Clarence says he agrees with Leslie.
Robert Berry:It's a great book.
Robert Berry:Thank you very much Clearance.
Robert Berry:And Leslie, you guys are really making my day.
Robert Berry:And Marvin says, thanks Thomas for sharing.
Robert Berry:Clarence is talking about my other book, creating wonderful work papers.
Robert Berry:He said, it's also a good, thank you.
Robert Berry:My man.
Robert Berry:You Clarence.
Robert Berry:You're selling me today, man.
Robert Berry:Am.
Robert Berry:I might have to send you a commission check.
Robert Berry:Yeah.
Robert Berry:So that's the first book written entirely about work papers.
Robert Berry:That's all now is still here.
Robert Berry:Thank you, my friend.
Robert Berry:She says you can apply this information to any field.
Robert Berry:We closed doors being arrogant.
Robert Berry:You are absolutely correct.
Robert Berry:You guys don't know Eylea.
Robert Berry:She's a mindset coach amongst some of the other things that she does.
Robert Berry:A lot of the principles that I talk about with auditors are really about your mindset, because anybody can teach you the technical skills, but really mindset, soft skills.
Robert Berry:Those are the hardest skills, but those are the skills that will get you the furthest in your career.
Robert Berry:And those are also the skills that will make you the most money in your audit career.
Robert Berry:And mark is here in mark says, Hey, Robert, how do you deal with an arrogant client mark?
Robert Berry:Here's what I'll say to them.
Robert Berry:You got to get.
Robert Berry:I talk about arrogant clients in the book, I named four or five different client personality types, how to recognize them and how to deal with them.
Robert Berry:But today we're talking about us because we'll in order to fix the outside, you have to fix the inside first.
Robert Berry:So I want us auditors to deal with the things that are ailing us first.
Robert Berry:And then we can go outside.
Robert Berry:I may do an episode on one type of a audit client in one of these audit bites, PI.
Robert Berry:But very good question.
Robert Berry:You want to know the answer?
Robert Berry:It's in the book.
Robert Berry:I'm sorry.
Robert Berry:I just went back up to clearance again.
Robert Berry:So the question that we were at is how can you identify an arrogant auditor?
Robert Berry:Well, here's your first name?
Robert Berry:You might be arrogant auditors.
Robert Berry:If you talk more than your client.
Robert Berry:Now I know some people get nervous and they talk about.
Robert Berry:Sometimes when I'm nervous, I talk, but those auditors who talk incessantly and is usually negative.
Robert Berry:And it's usually about the clients, they're probably arrogant, but to add a little bit more sauce to this, the definition of auditor itself is.
Robert Berry:Well, one definition of auditor don't believe me.
Robert Berry:Let's go back to our Oxford languages definition.
Robert Berry:Look at that second definition, a listener, an auditor is a listener.
Robert Berry:So the question that I would ask is to my auditing professionals, listening today, are you a good list?
Robert Berry:Are you a good listener?
Robert Berry:So you might be an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:If you talk more than your clients do, because again, how can you assess an environment?
Robert Berry:If you've not heard what that environment entails, you have to listen first, then assess, then draw conclusions, then report back.
Robert Berry:But the second thing that might indicate that you're an arrogant auditor is, well, if you don't ask any questions, You hear me say this all the time.
Robert Berry:Curiosity is the cornerstone of internal auditing.
Robert Berry:Now, to be curious, you have to ask a lot of questions.
Robert Berry:Now, mind you, there is a difference between asking questions and questioning people.
Robert Berry:I say that all the time as well.
Robert Berry:For example, if you're asking questions, you might say to a client, "How did this happened?"
Robert Berry:After you find something that's bad, right?
Robert Berry:Or you might say, "Can you help understand the process that led this?"
Robert Berry:Whatever this is that you're talking about, that's asking questions now, questioning people you might say to a client, how in the world could you let this happen?
Robert Berry:Notice the difference one is inquisitive.
Robert Berry:The other is inquisitive.
Robert Berry:Did I say that, right?
Robert Berry:I think I just lost my whole train of thought there.
Robert Berry:One, one is accusatory and one is inquisitive.
Robert Berry:That is what I meant to say.
Robert Berry:If I didn't say that a few minutes ago.
Robert Berry:So there's a difference.
Robert Berry:One is inquisitive.
Robert Berry:One is accusatory.
Robert Berry:So again, you might be an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:If one, you talk more than your clients to.
Robert Berry:Second.
Robert Berry:If you don't ask any questions, now you ready for the third one?
Robert Berry:Let me just hold this suspenseful moment for change for just one moment.
Robert Berry:The third way to identify if you might be an arrogant auditor is if you do not communicate to understand.
Robert Berry:If you do not communicate to understand, think about it.
Robert Berry:If you're simply barking out orders, without understanding the underlying environment, something is really wrong because as I just told you, auditor means listener.
Robert Berry:Auditor means listener.
Robert Berry:So you might be in area.
Robert Berry:Audrey.
Robert Berry:If you talk more than your clients, if you don't ask any questions and if you don't communicate with the, to understand what's happening around you.
Robert Berry:In other words, if you don't seek context now, what can you do if you are, or if you know an arrogant Otter again, what can you do if you are, or if you.
Robert Berry:In arrogant, auditor,
Robert Berry:anybody have any ideas, anybody want to drop into the chat?
Robert Berry:What do you think you can do if you are, or if you know, an arrogant auditor?
Robert Berry:So what I'll do is I'll see if anybody's going to drop any answers into the chat.
Robert Berry:And while you're doing that, Here's what I'll say, Christmas just passed and you all have a favorite auditor on your list.
Robert Berry:Go to my website, go get you some audit merge.
Robert Berry:I've got an awesome auditor.
Robert Berry:T-shirt and I don't mean that.
Robert Berry:It's an awesome t-shirt for auditors.
Robert Berry:I mean, it literally says awesome audit or own it.
Robert Berry:Why?
Robert Berry:Because you guys are awesome.
Robert Berry:I have, I love audit shirts.
Robert Berry:I have coffee mugs, all kinds of stuff.
Robert Berry:Go ahead, check out the website, go get your merge.
Robert Berry:Um, so now the question that I just asked is what can you do if you are, or if you know, an arrogant ardor.
Robert Berry:So now.
Robert Berry:I was waiting for Thomas to drop something into the chain.
Robert Berry:And because Thomas didn't drop anything into the chat, here's what I would tell you again, the answer to that question is in the book, uh, ask better questions, get better answers, perform better audits.
Robert Berry:But again, this is audit bites.
Robert Berry:Our subject for today is don't be an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:If you're an arrogant auditor, you miss out on opportunities to connect with audit clients, you miss out on opportunities to have learning experiences.
Robert Berry:Now you might be arrogant if you talk more than your clients, or if you don't ask questions or if you don't communicate with the intent to understand.
Robert Berry:Laser is here and Liza says, provide nonverbal cues and give them the opportunity to change their behavior.
Robert Berry:That is one thing that you can do.
Robert Berry:Uh, I, I will admit though, if you have someone that works with you, Behaving in a way that's eroding your, uh, relationship with your clients.
Robert Berry:You have to address it with them.
Robert Berry:You have to address it with them.
Robert Berry:So again, guys, this is audit bikes.
Robert Berry:This is episode number 15.
Robert Berry:Don't be an arrogant auditor.
Robert Berry:If you would like CPEs for this episode, give me about a day.
Robert Berry:Go to my website.
Robert Berry:You'll be able to get CPEs.
Robert Berry:Watching a podcast or watching a live show.
Robert Berry:I think that's kind of cool.
Robert Berry:Don't you think that's kind of cool.
Robert Berry:I think that's cool.
Robert Berry:So go to my website thatauditguy.com.
Robert Berry:Find the episode, get your CPEs.
Robert Berry:So I am Robert Berry.
Robert Berry:I want to thank you guys for joining.
Robert Berry:Oh
Robert Berry:advice.
Robert Berry:And Thomas is he wasn't trying to come across as arrogant acting like he knew everything, so,
Robert Berry:oh, all right.
Robert Berry:Until next.
Robert Berry:Thank you for joining us on this episode of audit bites.
Robert Berry:If you want to do more, see more, be more check out our website that I got.com.
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